HD-Variante von Dr. Ken Leistner

Tag!

In dem Thread von Mark oh, in dem er das training mancher powerliftern beschreibt, ist mir besonders die HD-Variante von Dr. Ken Leistner aufgefallen, die Joey Almadovar benutzte:

Ein Trainingstag pro Woche

(Dr. Ken Leistner's TP-Var.)

Bankdrücken 2 x 3 - 5
Klimmzüge mit engem Griff
und zusätzlichem Gewicht 2 x 3 - 5
Supersatz
Kniebeugen 1 x 20 )
Kreuzheben 1 x 20 ) alternativ: 3 - 5
Langhantelcurls 1 x 6 - 8

In dem trainingsplan wird ja jeder muskel direkt ( Brust, Lat, Quadriceps, Beinbiceps und biceps) direkt trainiert oder durch die schweren gewichte stark mittraininert ( Vordere, mittlere und hintere Schulter durch BD und KH, Triceps durch BD, Waden minimal durch kb und kh...).

Nun stellt sich für mich die frage, ob so ein Ganzkörperplan nicht aus HD sicht viel ergonomischer wäre als ein 2er oder sogar ein 3er Splitt:
1. Die Gelenke werden nur einmal pro woche schwer belastet
2. Max. Regenerationszeit von 1 woche für jede muskelgruppe inklusive des ZNS
3. Cardioeinheiten können optimal für die verbesserung der regeneraton eingesetzt werden
...

Ebenso denke ich das so ein Programm auch gut für forumuser ist, die primär einem anderen sport verfallen sind, da bei diesem plan das Übertraining ziemlich ausgeschlossen wird.

Also was haltet ihr von diesem trainingsplan, effizient? Werden alle muskel trainiert? Comments generell...

Cu&hf

Bin mir sicher, daß das so geht. Recht viel anders mach ich das grundsätzlich ja auch nicht. Nur, daß ich KH und KB nicht in einer Einheit durchziehe und die Langhantelcurls weglasse. Nur Profi Powerlifter sind natürlich eine ganz andere Liga, die schaffen KH und KB wahrscheinlich eher in einer Einheit als ich Handtuch...

noch mehr comments plz!!

Cu

geht in richtung 'zyko vs. hit', ohne sagen zu wollen, dass zyko den sinn des hit restlos verneint!!!

(btw, interessanter artikel auf deiner homepage zyko...)

ich denke auch, eine einheit erscheint etwas wenig.

aber, probieren geht ueber studieren...

viel glueck,

b000gie

Heyho

Ich mach jetzt auch schon eine Weile den Plan von Leistner.
Bin auch 100% davon überzeugt, da mehr nur Übertraining bedeuten würde.

Habt ihr vielleicht noch mehr Informationen zu Leistner und seinem Trainingsprogramm? Bilder, Artikel, Internetadressen, Buchempfehlungen?
Hat zB jemand " Maximize Your Training" gelesen?( da soll er ja irgendwie mitgeschrieben haben )

danke

Oder frei nach Arthur Jones:

Ein Splittraining macht genauso viel Sinn wie mit einem offenen Auge zu schlafen. Die besten Ergebnisse erzielt man, in dem man den Ober- und Unterkörper in der selben Traininseinheit trainiert.

Hier ein Link:

http://www.davedraper.com/gallery/sh...ry.php/cat/519

http://www.cyberpump.com/preview/sense.html


Gruss

Wuddi

Hi Wuddi

Link 1 ist leider bloß die Gallery eines Members mit dem Namen "Dr. Ken" oder ist einer von denen Ken Leistner?

Link 2 kannt ich schon und beißt sich etwas mit dem oben geschriebenen Trainingsprogramm, da zB die Ausführung von Bankdrücken nicht empfohlen wird

Jemand noch andere Links und Tipps?

Danke

http://www.davedraper.com/gallery/sh...cat/519/page/2

Der kleine Mann mit dembösen Blick ist Dr. Ken. Die Typen im Hintergrund sind alles Footballspieler, die während ihrer Laufbahn bei ihm trainiert haben und teilweise unglaubliche Leistungen vollbracht haben, z.B
FRANK SAVINO. 282lbs at 5'11"
Squat - 700lbs x 15
Bench Press - 375lbs x 15
Deadlift - 500lbs x 40

Da soll noch einmal einer sagen, HIT mache nicht stark :)

Du mußt mal auf Seite 3 schauen, da ist er zu sehen, u.a. mit Dave Draper und Mike Katz.

http://www.davedraper.com/gallery/sh...cat/519/page/3

Gruss

Wuddi

P.S. früher kam man über Cyberpump an mehrere Artikel von Ken Leistner, leider darf man jetzt dafür bezahlen. :/

Und falls ich mich nicht täusche, dann ist das der Doc mit längeren Haaren:

http://www.davedraper.com/gallery/sh...cat/519/page/7

und hier noch was zum Lesen vom Doc: ;)

http://www.dioz.de/effectivestrengthprogram.pdf

und schauen:

http://www.dioz.de/drkenpress.zip

Drücken mit 114kg

http://www.dioz.de/drkencurl.zip

Langhantelcurls mit 69kg


Gruss

Wuddi

Preface: Dr. Ken's Reflections on "A Program for Gaining Functional Muscle"
Like most of my programs, many looked at this routine in the mid 1980s as they viewed my many PLUSA articles in the late 1970s: "too little work, can't work!" The key to my training philosophy is "go very, very hard, but don't do a lot so you can come back and do it again after recovery". Many just don't like to do very hard work or a limited amount of work. Both factors work against them psychologically. This program however, can be very effective.


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A Program for Gaining Functional Muscle

I used to enjoy reading the late John McCallum's articles in STRENGTH & HEALTH magazine. Not only were they witty and humorous, but they offered simple training routines that were very effective. Experience has taught me that the majority of trainees won't ever make the progress they envision for themselves because:

1. They will not train as hard as possible.
2. They do not believe that a program can be effective if it appears limited in the number of exercises.
3. They will not train as hard as possible.
4. They lack confidence in their ability to gain muscular strength and size.
5. They will not train as hard as possible.

I used a number of McCallum's routines or modified them by reducing the number of sets. I utilized basic multi-joint movements because my entire garage "gym" consisted of a barbell, two dumbbell bars, a bench, a pair of squat racks, and two pipes which allowed me to do dips and chins. I had a number of 75- and 50-pound plates and truck flywheels, but few smaller plates. Like Mr. McCallum I discovered that I progressed best doing three to six exercises per session, and my selection of plates dictated that I concentrated on squats, deadlifts and other relatively heavy basic movements.

I was fortunate that I had no real local "experts" to turn to, thus I learned to train in a hit-and-miss fashion, doing many things incorrectly but developing a physical base and a training philosophy strongly influenced by exceptionally hard work. Through "dumb luck," chance and common sense, I learned what did and did not work for me. At a time when I was most interested in gaining functional muscular bodyweight to enhance athletic performance, I was able to gain 41 pounds in five months, long before protein supplements, glandular extracts, amino acid powders and anabolic steroids were within the consciousness of the lifting crowd. Here is the program I followed, one that would serve any athlete well if the proper effort were applied to the few heavy, basic movements that comprise the routine:

1. Squat: warmup of 10 reps and then 1 x 8 (once per month, 1 x 50)
2. Stiff-legged deadlift: 1 x 15-20 (once per month, 1 x 30)
3. Overhead press or bench press (alternate each workout): warmup, 2 x 6-8 (once per month try maximum for 1-3 reps)
4. Barbell shrug: 1 x 15-20
5. Barbell curl: 1-2 x 6-10 (once per month, 1 x 50)
6. Dips: 1 x 6-10 (once per month, 1 x 50)

I performed this program two times per week. I had originally planned on three training days weekly, but was always too sore or fatigued to benefit from or even attempt a third training session. I ran a combination of sprints and distance four or five days per week while I utilized this routine, and gained muscular bodyweight the entire time.

I used no vitamin/mineral or protein supplements, drugs or unusual foods. I ate three to four meals per day of standard fare and occasionally drank "milkshakes" consisting of whole milk, low fat milk powder, eggs and Nestle's Quik. I would now recommend that one drink only low fat or skim milk, use only the white of the egg and stay with the Quik for its ability to make anything taste good!

I was successful in gaining muscular bodyweight (147 to 188 pounds at 5-6) on what many pseudo experts would see as a "simple," "nonscientific" training program because it met almost all of the requirements for effective training--brief, extremely intensive training on exercises that stimulate the major muscular structures of the body

Preface: Dr. Ken's Reflections on "Simple Progression"
Gee, the recurrent theme in Dr. Ken's writings over the past thirty five years or so. No one wants to believe it but if you take a few exercises that give sufficient work to the major muscular structures and bang away consistently over time, being patient and determined to add weight to the bar over time, you get much bigger and stronger. Is that all there is to it? For ninety five percent of those who ever grasp a barbell, yes, in my opinion. I love this article because I can recall how great I felt when I was doing this one program, living in a very cramped and limited situation, not having any luxuries or even a lot of food to eat. This was the ultimate in simplicity, something I learned will work for most. That means you have to believe in yourself and what you're doing, something most don't do, thus, the proliferation of supplements, magazines, online sites, and changes in routine every three to five weeks.


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Simple Progression

A recurring theme in all of THE STEEL TIP articles is the necessity for progression. Most powerlifters, bodybuilders and athletes usually change exercises or the number of sets and reps when progress stalls. If the arms are not growing as one would like, or expect, the standard procedure is to switch from barbell curls and incline dumbbell curls to pulley curls and some form of preacher bench work. The primary reason for any lack of progress is a lack of progression.

Once you have a group of exercises that you enjoy, is not painful or damaging to any of the body structures, and can be done on the available equipment, there's no physiological reason to change them, even over years of training. The muscle-building publications call for "muscle confusion" principles, where the trainee is encouraged to change an exercise because the body becomes "used to it," but this is, in the vast majority of cases, unnecessary. It's true that the body will adapt to a stimulus, and once that stimulus no longer produces a need for adaptation, the body will cease to respond positively. However, this has less to do with any particular exercise or "plane of contraction" than it does a failure to maintain or increase levels of overload/training intensity which will continuously provoke the system to adapt.

If you did nothing but barbell curls for biceps and forearm flexor development, and continuously did the exercise in the best of form, always added reps or weight to the bar as you became able to comfortably handle the load or do the guide number of reps, and eventually were able to properly curl 180-200 pounds for 10-20 reps, the involved muscles will be as big as your genetic potential allows, for most men and women.

This rarely occurs, because a lack of progress is usually met with a change in routine, influenced by the most recently published edition of POWERLIFTING USA or MUSCLE & FITNESS magazine, or the arrival of a "Mr. Big Body" at your gym. In most cases, progress still fails to occur because the trainee continues to train with the same lack of intensity or overload on the new program as he or she did on the discarded one. When I trained at a local gym which boasted three Mr. America winners, and a host of top level area bodybuilders and lifters, I never heard any of them instruct a questioner with the advice that they train harder on the program they were using, even if that program originally came from them. In every case they called for a change in the exercises, and often the sets and reps.

The necessity of consistently working hard on a limited number of basic exercises that give stimulation to the major muscular structures of the body, and striving to be truly progressive while training, was made clear when I moved into a small, one-room bungalow on the beach many years ago. The only training facility available to me was the Olympic set and squat racks I placed in the center of this room. I cannot imagine a more limited facility, especially since my training had to be done late in the evening, after a twelve-hour day of physical labor. Mistakes in lifting technique were always a matter of grave concern, for a skip of the foot could have resulted in damaged walls or a broken desk. Despite this, I can honestly say that I was able to become as strong as I ever had been, or ever became later, relative to bodyweight.

My program was done ten times per month -- three workouts one week, two workouts the next, in an alternating fashion, doing Workout A one day and Workout B on the next training day.

Workout A
Squat: warmup, 1 x 15
Stiff-legged deadlift: 1 x 15
Overhead press: 1 x 10
Bent-over row: 1 x 8
Pushups: maximum number in one minute
Barbell curl: 1 x 8
Side bend: 1 x 15 to each side

Workout B
Squat: 1 x 30
Upright row: 1 x 12
Press behind neck: warmup, 1 x 8
Shrug: 1 x 12
Dip (between heavy chairs): 1 x 6
Reverse curl: 1 x 8
Situp: 1 x 15

This very simple routine allowed me to train quickly and efficiently, and most importantly, hammered home the fact that it was not necessary to have an array of high-tech equipment in order to make muscular gains. Yes, I would have enjoyed the opportunity to bench press on occasion, and do heavy chins, but they weren't necessary to progress. My stiff-legged deadlift was greater than my regular deadlift had been, and my ability to work hard all day was enhanced by my training.

I augmented this training with runs on the beach or boardwalk, varying the distance from one and one half miles to six miles, two to four times per week. Obviously, my emphasis was not on preparing for powerlifting competition, nor was I ever interested in physique display. Yet, photos and my training diary indicate that I was perhaps at my best in terms of strength development, and the ability to demonstrate that strength with the barbell movements I was doing or athletically, at my best cardiovascularly, and certainly at my best in terms of physical appearance, if that's defined as the ability to demonstrate a very high degree of muscle tissue mass and limited bodyfat a a particular weight.

I was once told by Arthur Jones that my arms would be as big as they would ever be when I could curl 200 pounds for 12 strict reps, that my shoulder area would be as developed as possible when I could strictly press 150% of my bodyweight for 12 reps, squat 400 pounds for 20 full reps, and stiff-legged deadlift the same for 30. In essence, this is true, and if more effort is directed into elevating the amount of weight being used on the basic movements, and there's less inclination to alter routines every 4-6 weeks, the majority of trainees, and certainly those with "average" potential, would be far stronger and more muscularly developed over any particular period of time.

Morgen!

Zitat:

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1. Squat: warmup of 10 reps and then 1 x 8 (once per month, 1 x 50)
2. Stiff-legged deadlift: 1 x 15-20 (once per month, 1 x 30)
3. Overhead press or bench press (alternate each workout): warmup, 2 x 6-8 (once per month try maximum for 1-3 reps)
4. Barbell shrug: 1 x 15-20
5. Barbell curl: 1-2 x 6-10 (once per month, 1 x 50)
6. Dips: 1 x 6-10 (once per month, 1 x 50)

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Noch ne Frage: Sind außer bei den zwei Übungen (Squats, Bench, press) keine Warmups eingeplant? Also ich weiss ja nicht, aber bei Deadlifts keine Warmups zu machen sehe ich als sehr gefährlich an...

Cu

Auch wenn dort kein Warm up steht, dann heißt es ja nicht, dass Du auf keinen Fall einen Warm up Satz machen darfst, oder zwei.


Gruss

Wuddi